A place to chunter about anything that isn't Womad

[sc]

"Do we have enough money to bomb Syria?"
"Yes"
"Do we have enough money to look after some Syrian kids?"
"Heck No"

Shame on you UK!!!

[digitalmonkey]

Hopefully one of the great miscarriages of justice was put right, to a certain extent today.

Justice to the 96.

Still makes me angry/sad when I watched the news bulletin tonight and hearing the contributions from so many people involved; so awful hearing of people trying to help as best they good for dead and dying . The story of the Sheffield Wednesday steward, a policeman who did try to help, a paramedic and hearing stories from the fans and families involved. At least the truth is now out in the open

Seeing the police dogs on the pitch rather than the ambulances . How on earth anyone could treat the incident as crowd trouble will forever be beyond me.

Here's hoping criminal convictions can be made were appropriate

[sc]

and hopefully the families and loved ones can at last find some peace and closure at last.

[calndel]

interesting state of affairs north of the border

the leading party loses it majority and the Scottish media hail it as a success

ah well 5 more year of cut and austerity before we get ot do it all again

[sc]

Well I was pleasantly surprised at Labours performance in England. I was certain that Corbyn would accelerate Labours decline to fringe politics, but he does seem to have halted and started to reverse the downward trend, when you compare against what he inherited. Still a hell of a lot of work to be done to sort themselves out, but hopefully his moving the party to the left has stopped the leakage of their hardcore supporters. I still don't know how they will appeal to the centre ground of political belief, because they have moved so far away.

Maybe, they should cut a deal with the Liberals, not stand against each other, in the same constituencies. Labour would be best having the north, Wales, major cities and fighting to recover Scotland, Liberals have the South except for London, Brighton etc. Then form a Lib/Lab Government in 2020.

Or Labour could wait to 2024 to try and take Government, cannot see them recovering enough to get 2020 without doing a deal.

Just a thought......

[calndel]

sadly Scotland is very much a divide country

on one side are the tartan tories who want Scotland to be independent, on the other are the tories who want to stay in the uk.

The tartan tories have doe a great pr job saying they are progressive and left wing but there actions show that they are a showboating right wing party only interested in power and control and are quite happy for their supporters to bully anyone into submission including the BBC, they also have the full backing of Murdoch press as they help keep David C in No 10. Sign trade deals with China with a single hint of a question about human rights and have been the lease produced legislative government Scotland has ever had.

As for the tories at least they do what they say on their tin and are honest about being tories so you know what you are going to get.

The greens want independence and worked hard with the tartan tories which we struggled with as the tartan tories based their independence argument on a fossil fuel economy so they got a resurgence of support from lefty independence supporters. They have stood up to the tartan tories in the past when they were asked to support heavy cuts in a proposed budget.

As for Labour they are stuck in the middle, the tartan tories have used the independence campaign and their left wing pr to poach many labour supports and they were dammed if they did and dammed if they didn't say anything about another referendum during the election campaign. The media have also been very negative towards labour or simply ignored them and ran positive stories about the tartan tories.

as for the future, who knows as both sides of the tory divide will use the independence question to fuel their support, while the country continues to be neglected

[calndel]

oh and we know that down south their is a perception that the tartan tories are all sweetness and light and everyone in Scotland loves them (thanks to their pr team)

they are not, they make cut to public spending that would make Maggie T blush and they still don't have the support of the majority of people living in Scotland

[digitalmonkey]

The results in Scotland were certainly the most interesting to me. The Tories appear to have done very in harnessing the Pro Union vote. How much blame can be attributed to the Labour Party leader I don't know, but I certainly don't think it helped that they have been trying to pander to those who want Independence (did they leader imply a while ago she would consider voting for Independence if we left the EU?), they would always surely lose voters to the Tories? The Independence vote has clearly not been resolved despite Salmond saying it was a once in a lifetime opportunity when the referendum came round. I think Ruth Davidson does have the ability (the right pr maybe) to reach out to the electorate with a very strong, consistent view on being the Pro Union Party which maybe more of an issue than other policies. I'm not saying it is the right way to use your vote but it is my reading of the situation.

In Wales, bit depressing for me to see the growth of UKIP. Who on earth would want to vote for Neil Hamilton is beyond me.

The overall picture is probably quite good viewing for the Tories. There best bet in winning the General Election is if Corbyn remains in place. As S.C alluded to, it is hard to see how he will reach out to middle England and these election results show he hasn't really done that.

[calndel]

Corbyn seems to keep his distance from elections he isn't involved in and he made it very clear it was Scottish Labour's campaign to run as they saw fit and yes there was a suggestion that they would consider Independence if the UK left the EU which didn't help their cause. Some people did vote tory to block the tartan tories as no matter what Salmond or anyone else within the tartan tories says they will always push for Independence because that's the rallying call for their supporters and without that Independence smoke screen people might start ask more questions about the mess they are making of the country (whenever they are asked awkward questions their first line of defense is to talk about a second referendum and independence).

I have also heard Ruth Davidson being touted as tory leader but I can see a gay scottish woman going down to well with the ex public school boys in their london clubs.


UKIP will be a flash in the pan and they will always be on the fringes of politics, to be honest the tartan tories are just as bad as UKIP for their separatists ideals.

[olirow]

Labour won the elections in London, England and Wales. Do you really think anyone who voted for Corbyn's Labour this time won't at a General Election? I am surprised to have to read right wing bullshit on here.

[calndel]

all politics is bullshit and we all all entitled to have a say

and just for the recorded we agree with your views on Corbyn

[sc]

May 7, 2016 23:31:48 GMT olirow said:

Labour won the elections in London, England and Wales. Do you really think anyone who voted for Corbyn's Labour this time won't at a General Election? I am surprised to have to read right wing bullshit on here.

 "Labour has to be a big tent that appeals to everyone - not just its activists.
"Campaigns that deliberately turn their back on particular groups are doomed to fail. Just like in London, so-called natural Labour voters alone will never be enough to win a general election.
"We must be able to persuade people who previously voted Conservative that Labour can be trusted with the economy and security, as well as improving public services and creating a fairer society."

I guess that is just right wing bullshit .......  oh no ...... Sadiq Khan said it  

Labour has to appeal to the population rather than just it's activists, Corbyn, has as I previously stated, started to stop the rot and turn the boat around.  But I cant see it being fixed enough for taking Government by 2020, but again I guess that's just right wing bull shit  

[deserttraveller]

Sadly its all about image, image, image and whilst someone might have all the right policies in place and diehards vote for him if, in this case Corbyn, does not appeal to voters as a statesman who can not only run the country but be seen as equal to all the other Heads of state they won’t get voted in. Blair got put in 18 months before the landslide election. Cameron et al have all been schooled in these 'desirable' traits during their time doing PPE or at Eton etc.

Cameron clearly wants to outsource public services inc the NHS to his mates and the rich are getting much richer but millions continued to voted for the Tories last week, Khan makes a massively valid point.

[sc]

May 8, 2016 9:28:44 GMT deserttraveller said:

Sadly its all about image, image, image and whilst someone might have all the right policies in place and diehards vote for him if, in this case Corbyn, does not appeal to voters as a statesman who can not only run the country but be seen as equal to all the other Heads of state they won’t get voted in. Blair got put in 18 months before the landslide election. Cameron et al have all been schooled in these 'desirable' traits during their time doing PPE or at Eton etc.

Cameron clearly wants to outsource public services inc the NHS to his mates and the rich are getting much richer but millions continued to voted for the Tories last week, Khan makes a massively valid point.

You are absolutely right DT, can you imagine, in four years time Jeremy Corbyn (if in his current style) sitting down to negotiate with Putin and Trump?  They would eat him alive!  It is all about image and persona, Corbyn can change his, if he wants to. 

[calndel]

we think Corbyn would love a meeting with Putin and Trump as he would quickly put them in their place and not be intimated by them or sell out his principals to keep them happy