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Post by sc on Apr 2, 2018 20:34:37 GMT
There is a difference between anti- Semitic and anti Zionist. It needs good leadership to ensure there can be criticism of a state that is pushing out Palestinian residents in favour of Jewish illegal settlements without placing the blame on people sharing the same ancestry. Corbyn failed on this by not understanding the racial slurs contained in the mural which he defended on Twitter/Facebook and brought the current protest on himself. IMHO he at best let us down over brexit (at worst stabbed us in the back), has dithered over Russian aggression showing poor international leadership and is now unable to give an authoritative lead regarding Israel. There was a reason why he was a backbench mp for so many years and it is now becoming so clear why that was. Yes, he might have made the differance over brexit, but he remains (radically some might say) left and has now shown his inability to morph into a statesman; a vital skill if he is to succeeed May. Unless he gains supporters from those who voted Tory last time he won't win a future election. He neither looks like nor acts like a PM in waiting; he's not going to change, he would have done it by now. I would suggest for that reason he needs to go. May looks battered but has come out of the EU with a deal that will appease the votors who as we know dont look too deeply at anything. Great. Can't see him going DT, he still has massive support from Momentum and the members, in practice he has a job for life, the only way I can see him leaving is if he chose to, even then he may not go as it would mean letting down his supporters. He does risk becoming a Personality cult |
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Post by Purpledawn on Apr 2, 2018 23:03:00 GMT
I'm a member of Momentum and the Labour Party and I support Corbyn all the way. I don't consider that he's failed at all - membership is on the increase because of his leadership. The ongoing smear campaign orchestrated by the right-wing media, Blairites and Tory scum are the main sources of the appalling character assassination aimed at Corbyn but my money's on him to survive as leader. He won't resign and the only way he'll go is if the party membership make that decision. Personality cult my arse, he's a dedicated and experienced politician with more credibility than most of the rest of all parties put together and even if we don't win the next election, he's no loser in my book.
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Post by sc on Apr 3, 2018 7:39:34 GMT
I'm a member of Momentum and the Labour Party and I support Corbyn all the way. I don't consider that he's failed at all - membership is on the increase because of his leadership. The ongoing smear campaign orchestrated by the right-wing media, Blairites and Tory scum are the main sources of the appalling character assassination aimed at Corbyn but my money's on him to survive as leader. He won't resign and the only way he'll go is if the party membership make that decision. Personality cult my arse, he's a dedicated and experienced politician with more credibility than most of the rest of all parties put together and even if we don't win the next election, he's no loser in my book. exactly, there will be no change in the Leadership. |
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Post by sc on Apr 3, 2018 16:47:18 GMT
Makes you wonder if this is a warm up to Mrs May having to say "Oh......... errrr ........... hmmmmm ......... yes........ sorry about that"  www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43633694 |
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Post by deserttraveller on Apr 3, 2018 21:16:17 GMT
Yes SC it is all smoke & mirrors with Brexit.
I was talking to my son just now who lives in Sweden where JC would be considered middle of the road and all the parties work together. The present Tories would be considred quite Right wing and would not command the following there that they have garnered here. PD yes, I do believe the British press belong in the gutter & criticising Israel for an atrocity does not make someone anti semitic. All of a sudden labour are anti semitic, really? where did that suddenly spring from; having never heard it before you have to question it. If the party were as has been suggested inherently racist do you think the tory spin doctors would have used it in the last election? sure they would. So I do question the 'fact'.
I think the modern world lives in the now, with a memory of a gnat, with no thought to 'facts' and when put in to context do they add up? When I did O level maths we had to show rough working which sometimes showed you if the final answer was close or not to the rough ball park figure. We seem to have lost that skill.
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Post by sc on Apr 4, 2018 7:14:48 GMT
Yes SC it is all smoke & mirrors with Brexit. I was talking to my son just now who lives in Sweden where JC would be considered middle of the road and all the parties work together. The present Tories would be considred quite Right wing and would not command the following there that they have garnered here. PD yes, I do believe the British press belong in the gutter & criticising Israel for an atrocity does not make someone anti semitic. All of a sudden labour are anti semitic, really? where did that suddenly spring from; having never heard it before you have to question it. If the party were as has been suggested inherently racist do you think the tory spin doctors would have used it in the last election? sure they would. So I do question the 'fact'. I think the modern world lives in the now, with a memory of a gnat, with no thought to 'facts' and when put in to context do they add up? When I did O level maths we had to show rough working which sometimes showed you if the final answer was close or not to the rough ball park figure. We seem to have lost that skill. I do think the antisemitism is a problem, it has been getting worse over the past few years. Chakrabarti, wrote her report a couple of years ago, however, two years on her recommendations still have not been implemented. Two years on from Livingstone he is still only suspended, Corbyn admits he supported antisemitic art with the excuse "I didn't look at it closely" (you don't have to look at it closely), Shawcroft, who was chair of Labour disputes panel chair, thought a candidate who considered the holocaust a hoax, had done nothing wrong because "I hadn't looked at what he had posted". Thousands of hate messages sent to Labour MP Luciana Berger because she supported Jewish organisations protesting against antisemitism. Even locally to me we have it, our prospective Labour candidate for Tunbridge Wells has been suspended because of Holocaust denial. jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/labour-suspends-council-candidate-accused-of-holocaust-denial-and-anti-semitism/There is a problem, Corbyn admits there is a problem, Momentum admits there is a problem and both say this isn't just smears from the right wing press. Of course the right wing are taking advantage of it, if it were the Tories in trouble Labour would be all over them like a rash, but that does not mean it's not a problem. If it were politically motivated the Right would have waited until 2022 for the next General Election before shouting about it, By laying it bear now Labour have 4 years before the GE. PD quoted a famous poem a while ago that made an impact on me also when I was a child, you must not sit back and let something bad come to pass just because it does not effect you, this is the case here, don't get confused between antisemitism and criticising Israeli policy, I think a lot of Labour supporters have. "Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.” Further clarification here: www.holocaustremembrance.com/sites/default/files/press_release_document_antisemitism.pdf |
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Post by deserttraveller on Apr 4, 2018 16:39:30 GMT
Holocast denial, I always thought that view was mainly held by the ultra right. Its like racism or the Flat Earth Society, it so crazy it is almost amusing- a comment like "Are really being serious?" is what I might say.
You clearly know more about it than me SC, and I'd say investigations need to be swift and such individuals booted out.
I want to know why it is somehow ok to deny the holcast. The only person that ever said that to me was a German student in our house when I was 13 who admitted his father was in the SS in WW2; he was basically a Nazi. My Dad had an old Jewish lady round- I saw the number tatooed on her arm from the camps, much smaller than I imagined- just remembering the incident makes me emotional even now. The student looked at her and full of venom said "She's Jewish!". Such terrible hate.
He was never invited back and we ceased all communication with him.
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Post by calndel on Apr 4, 2018 20:54:31 GMT
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Post by Zenrider on Apr 13, 2018 23:06:08 GMT
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Post by digitalmonkey on Apr 28, 2018 18:19:06 GMT
Postal vote sorted and posted.
Id imagine Labour will win nearly all Council seats here in Reading
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Post by sc on Apr 29, 2018 8:10:58 GMT
Postal vote sorted and posted. Id imagine Labour will win nearly all Council seats here in Reading Yes, Reading looks very solid Labour, down here in Maidstone it's quiet scary and I think there is a real risk of Maidstone falling to the Tories on Thursday. Currently Maidstone is officially "No Overall Control" but in reality it is a "minority" LibDem, the party make up is: Conservative 21 Lib Dem 22 Independent Group 4 Independent 1 Independent Maidstone 4 Labour 2 Vacancy 1 Total 55 So with 55 Councillors any party needs 28 to have a working majority. Right so, it gets complicated now, in Maidstone, there is an unofficial agreement that the LibDems leave Labour alone and Labour leaves the LibDems alone, we don't target each others seats, the common enemy are the Tories and at a local level the two parties are very similar as Brexit/Remain; Hard Left/Centre Left; Controlled Immigration/Relaxed Immigration, etc. don't really come up in local politics. So Lib Dems and Labour vote together which makes LibDem/Lab votes up to 24, then you have the Independents, "Independent Maidstone" is the new local brand name for UKIP, when it comes to votes that don't involve "Immigration and Europe" which after all are National issues, then "Independent Maidstone" Councillors vote with their individual hearts, so they are open to persuasion, much like the two other Independent groups. But it is knife edge stuff. Now, in Thursdays Election, No "Independent Maidstone" (were UKIP) are standing, so their votes will go somewhere. They will without doubt go to a Pro-Brexit Party so will go to either Labour or Conservative, and definitely not Lib Dem or Green. Now if we look at the ward I live in, in 2014 the result was: LibDem 491 Conservative 421 UKIP 370 Lab 164 Green 133 So LibDems won by 70 votes, however now UKIP (Independent Maidstone) are not standing (anywhere in Maidstone) so there are 370 Pro-Brexit votes up for grabs; (in my Ward alone) the question is how many of them want a "Tory Brexit" and how any want a "Labour Brexit", one thing is certain, they won't be voting Lib Dem or Green! To compound the issues, The Greens have decided that this Ward will be their target Ward for Maidstone, loads of voters here would love the The Greens (including myself) to do well, but where are they likely to take votes from? I would suggest 75% from Lib Dems, 25% from moderate Labour. The result of all of the above is that UKIP voters will push up Tory and Labour votes and a push from the Greens will reduce Labour and Lib Dem votes. Result a swing to the Tory votes, and we only have a margin of safety of 70 votes. The Political balance of a whole Council hangs on such a few voters, feeling "flat" with British Politics and it's undemocratic voting system of First Past The Post. |
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Post by digitalmonkey on Apr 29, 2018 18:46:41 GMT
S.C - do you think Tories will gain overall control of any Councils? I can't see it myself although I guess if as in your case there are some votes to be moved that otherwise went to some crank oddball party it's plausible.
I had choice of the Greens, Lib Dems, Labour or Tory. Bye bye UKIP.
It's a shame but really hope voting isn't drawn upon Brexit or other National issues but no doubt it will be
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Post by mikey on Apr 29, 2018 21:39:02 GMT
S.C - do you think Tories will gain overall control of any Councils? I can't see it myself although I guess if as in your case there are some votes to be moved that otherwise went to some crank oddball party it's plausible. I had choice of the Greens, Lib Dems, Labour or Tory. Bye bye UKIP. It's a shame but really hope voting isn't drawn upon Brexit or other National issues but no doubt it will be Do not underestimate the work of local party activists and the major influence they can have by organising and door knocking especially at the end of a campaign. I am sure their work was not reflected in opinion polls prior to the last general but helped generate more labour votes which surprised many experts on the night. |
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Post by sc on Apr 29, 2018 21:46:50 GMT
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Post by sc on Apr 29, 2018 22:36:29 GMT
S.C - do you think Tories will gain overall control of any Councils? I can't see it myself although I guess if as in your case there are some votes to be moved that otherwise went to some crank oddball party it's plausible. I had choice of the Greens, Lib Dems, Labour or Tory. Bye bye UKIP. It's a shame but really hope voting isn't drawn upon Brexit or other National issues but no doubt it will be The problem is that the left is split 3 ways, Labour, Lib Dem and Green. The right was split 2 ways Tory and UKIP (although some were UKIP Labour), now UKIP has gone in a lot of areas, the left is still split 3 ways and no splits on the right. The UKIP voters will need to go somewhere! |
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